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	<title>Comments on: Musicians cut from Digital Britain debate</title>
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	<link>http://a2f2a.com/2009/11/27/musicians-dropped-from-digital-britain-debate/</link>
	<description>The net&#039;s first, and only, artists-to-fans-to-artists blog!</description>
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		<title>By: Crosbie Fitch</title>
		<link>http://a2f2a.com/2009/11/27/musicians-dropped-from-digital-britain-debate/comment-page-1/#comment-1045</link>
		<dc:creator>Crosbie Fitch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Nov 2009 10:38:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://a2f2a.com/?p=979#comment-1045</guid>
		<description>I should add Robert, that I will now attempt to respond to Indiana&#039;s &lt;a href=&quot;http://a2f2a.com/2009/11/25/the-loyal-guardian-of-musicians/comment-page-1/#comment-1039&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;comment&lt;/a&gt;. I hope the explanation I provide meets with your approval.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I should add Robert, that I will now attempt to respond to Indiana&#8217;s <a href="http://a2f2a.com/2009/11/25/the-loyal-guardian-of-musicians/comment-page-1/#comment-1039" rel="nofollow">comment</a>. I hope the explanation I provide meets with your approval.</p>
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		<title>By: Crosbie Fitch</title>
		<link>http://a2f2a.com/2009/11/27/musicians-dropped-from-digital-britain-debate/comment-page-1/#comment-1044</link>
		<dc:creator>Crosbie Fitch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Nov 2009 10:32:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://a2f2a.com/?p=979#comment-1044</guid>
		<description>Robert, I&#039;m continuously improving my explanations. Over the many years  I&#039;ve being trying to explain myself, I&#039;m gradually getting a feel for better vs poorer explanations. However, it&#039;s not easy explaining why the Earth orbits the Sun to those who&#039;ve grown up understanding precisely the opposite, especially given the Sun still appears to orbit the Earth even while you explain the contrary. 99% of people end up thinking heliocentrists are either crazy and to be humoured, or so evil they should be burnt at the stake. :-/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Robert, I&#8217;m continuously improving my explanations. Over the many years  I&#8217;ve being trying to explain myself, I&#8217;m gradually getting a feel for better vs poorer explanations. However, it&#8217;s not easy explaining why the Earth orbits the Sun to those who&#8217;ve grown up understanding precisely the opposite, especially given the Sun still appears to orbit the Earth even while you explain the contrary. 99% of people end up thinking heliocentrists are either crazy and to be humoured, or so evil they should be burnt at the stake. :-/</p>
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		<title>By: thepeer</title>
		<link>http://a2f2a.com/2009/11/27/musicians-dropped-from-digital-britain-debate/comment-page-1/#comment-1043</link>
		<dc:creator>thepeer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Nov 2009 08:05:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://a2f2a.com/?p=979#comment-1043</guid>
		<description>This is not necessarily bad news. Someone is clearly scared of having a proper debate with all sides represented. Excluding the Pirate Party is like keeping dog owners away from a debate on legislation to impound all dogs. 

If they&#039;re scared, that means they don&#039;t believe they have a strong case - which of course they don&#039;t. Nobody who knows anything about the technologies involved believes this plan can work, and nobody who cares about civil liberties wants the government to be given these extreme powers. 

Since the supporters of this bill are scared of us airing our views, all we need to do to defeat them is keep on loudly airing our views.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is not necessarily bad news. Someone is clearly scared of having a proper debate with all sides represented. Excluding the Pirate Party is like keeping dog owners away from a debate on legislation to impound all dogs. </p>
<p>If they&#8217;re scared, that means they don&#8217;t believe they have a strong case &#8211; which of course they don&#8217;t. Nobody who knows anything about the technologies involved believes this plan can work, and nobody who cares about civil liberties wants the government to be given these extreme powers. </p>
<p>Since the supporters of this bill are scared of us airing our views, all we need to do to defeat them is keep on loudly airing our views.</p>
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		<title>By: Indiana Gregg</title>
		<link>http://a2f2a.com/2009/11/27/musicians-dropped-from-digital-britain-debate/comment-page-1/#comment-1042</link>
		<dc:creator>Indiana Gregg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Nov 2009 21:33:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://a2f2a.com/?p=979#comment-1042</guid>
		<description>hmm. It does say that the PPL and the Musician&#039;s Union were part of the debate. It would have been good if the Pirate Party had been indluded, however, the musicians were represented since the MU alone represents something like 120k musicians and the PPL represents performing/ recording artists as well. However, hopefully with some pressure from the press (and perhaps by more letters to MPs expressing our anger towards this kind of bill and maybe letters to the editors of all the UK nationals from concerned individuals?) we can stamp this silly idea out!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hmm. It does say that the PPL and the Musician&#8217;s Union were part of the debate. It would have been good if the Pirate Party had been indluded, however, the musicians were represented since the MU alone represents something like 120k musicians and the PPL represents performing/ recording artists as well. However, hopefully with some pressure from the press (and perhaps by more letters to MPs expressing our anger towards this kind of bill and maybe letters to the editors of all the UK nationals from concerned individuals?) we can stamp this silly idea out!</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew Robinson PPUK</title>
		<link>http://a2f2a.com/2009/11/27/musicians-dropped-from-digital-britain-debate/comment-page-1/#comment-1041</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Robinson PPUK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Nov 2009 11:09:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://a2f2a.com/?p=979#comment-1041</guid>
		<description>The Pirate Party didn&#039;t get a chance to speak either. The Telegraph have been very fair and even handed with their coverage of us in the past, but they didn&#039;t reply to my request for someone representing the multi-million strong file sharing community to take part in the debate.

It&#039;s intersting to note that Ed Vaizey was supposed to be at the Digital Treasures conference in West Brom, where I was also speaking, but after making a very bland opening speech and waffling instead of answering my question about the Digital Economy bill, he left the building in a huge hurry, which disappointed a lot of the delegates who were very keen to press him on Conservative plans for copyright with respect of orphan works, which is a huge issue for the archive and museum industries.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Pirate Party didn&#8217;t get a chance to speak either. The Telegraph have been very fair and even handed with their coverage of us in the past, but they didn&#8217;t reply to my request for someone representing the multi-million strong file sharing community to take part in the debate.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s intersting to note that Ed Vaizey was supposed to be at the Digital Treasures conference in West Brom, where I was also speaking, but after making a very bland opening speech and waffling instead of answering my question about the Digital Economy bill, he left the building in a huge hurry, which disappointed a lot of the delegates who were very keen to press him on Conservative plans for copyright with respect of orphan works, which is a huge issue for the archive and museum industries.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>http://a2f2a.com/2009/11/27/musicians-dropped-from-digital-britain-debate/comment-page-1/#comment-1036</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Nov 2009 20:25:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://a2f2a.com/?p=979#comment-1036</guid>
		<description>I may get into trouble for this but here&#039;s a quote from Matthew Good&#039;s website (www.matthewgood.org) where he explains about problems with &#039;fans&#039; feeling they are owed a signing after the show.

I feel it is relevant to the problems FAC members face when speaking out (or even non-FAC artists):
&lt;blockquote cite=&quot;&quot;&gt;
I’ve been to the puppet show and seen the strings. I’ve seen the lofty heights on this business and the ugliness that saturates it, I’ve seen its trenches and the pandering that takes place in them, and through it all I have somehow been able to retain the ability to be unlike the majority of my contemporaries – someone who has no qualms saying something no matter how ‘dangerous’ it might be perceived within the context of the business itself. Whether you like or dislike my music, the truth is that it is inseparable from that position. There is, unfortunately, no disregarding one in favour of the other. Personally, I truly believe that is one of the biggest mistakes that many people make when it comes to artists. The perception that they are too afraid to risk speaking their minds, even with regards to their own fans, in fear of what might happen. In the end, such trepidation is not the mark of an artist.

Someone that was very close to me when I was young imparted the following before their passing that I have never forgotten. To this day their words remain fixed in my mind, as if cemented to my heart…

“There is no shame in being who you are. There’s only shame in not going down swinging to protect it”. &lt;/blockquote&gt; Matthew Good, www.matthewgood.org, 27/11/2009, 15:21 EST.

If more artists had this mantra, we&#039;d have a stronger relationship between artists and fans and fans would be in even greater support of artists, and we&#039;d have several solutions in the works to which we could pitch to governments.

Artists have now seen that being cut from the talks means the labels, as always, don&#039;t value your opinion!  We fans do!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I may get into trouble for this but here&#8217;s a quote from Matthew Good&#8217;s website (www.matthewgood.org) where he explains about problems with &#8216;fans&#8217; feeling they are owed a signing after the show.</p>
<p>I feel it is relevant to the problems FAC members face when speaking out (or even non-FAC artists):</p>
<blockquote cite=""><p>
I’ve been to the puppet show and seen the strings. I’ve seen the lofty heights on this business and the ugliness that saturates it, I’ve seen its trenches and the pandering that takes place in them, and through it all I have somehow been able to retain the ability to be unlike the majority of my contemporaries – someone who has no qualms saying something no matter how ‘dangerous’ it might be perceived within the context of the business itself. Whether you like or dislike my music, the truth is that it is inseparable from that position. There is, unfortunately, no disregarding one in favour of the other. Personally, I truly believe that is one of the biggest mistakes that many people make when it comes to artists. The perception that they are too afraid to risk speaking their minds, even with regards to their own fans, in fear of what might happen. In the end, such trepidation is not the mark of an artist.</p>
<p>Someone that was very close to me when I was young imparted the following before their passing that I have never forgotten. To this day their words remain fixed in my mind, as if cemented to my heart…</p>
<p>“There is no shame in being who you are. There’s only shame in not going down swinging to protect it”. </p></blockquote>
<p> Matthew Good, <a href="http://www.matthewgood.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.matthewgood.org</a>, 27/11/2009, 15:21 EST.</p>
<p>If more artists had this mantra, we&#8217;d have a stronger relationship between artists and fans and fans would be in even greater support of artists, and we&#8217;d have several solutions in the works to which we could pitch to governments.</p>
<p>Artists have now seen that being cut from the talks means the labels, as always, don&#8217;t value your opinion!  We fans do!</p>
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		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>http://a2f2a.com/2009/11/27/musicians-dropped-from-digital-britain-debate/comment-page-1/#comment-1029</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Nov 2009 15:46:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://a2f2a.com/?p=979#comment-1029</guid>
		<description>@Crosbie:

Perhaps you can better explain the &quot;sell your art&quot; part for the viewers?

Make short but powerful points and give an example.  The points could summarily explain what you mean by &quot;don&#039;t sell copies, sell art.&quot;  Remember the people you&#039;re trying to pitch this to understand selling copies of art, but not necessarily art itself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Crosbie:</p>
<p>Perhaps you can better explain the &#8220;sell your art&#8221; part for the viewers?</p>
<p>Make short but powerful points and give an example.  The points could summarily explain what you mean by &#8220;don&#8217;t sell copies, sell art.&#8221;  Remember the people you&#8217;re trying to pitch this to understand selling copies of art, but not necessarily art itself.</p>
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		<title>By: Crosbie Fitch</title>
		<link>http://a2f2a.com/2009/11/27/musicians-dropped-from-digital-britain-debate/comment-page-1/#comment-1028</link>
		<dc:creator>Crosbie Fitch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Nov 2009 15:27:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://a2f2a.com/?p=979#comment-1028</guid>
		<description>Oh, the quote came from &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.digitalproductions.co.uk/index.php?id=217&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;FACing the Music&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, the quote came from <a href="http://www.digitalproductions.co.uk/index.php?id=217" rel="nofollow">FACing the Music</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Crosbie Fitch</title>
		<link>http://a2f2a.com/2009/11/27/musicians-dropped-from-digital-britain-debate/comment-page-1/#comment-1027</link>
		<dc:creator>Crosbie Fitch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Nov 2009 15:23:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://a2f2a.com/?p=979#comment-1027</guid>
		<description>As I tried to enlighten Billy at the beginning of October &#039;09, prior to the formation of a2f2a:

&lt;blockquote&gt;I suggest FAC should represent the artists who no longer wish the labels to pretend to represent them. FAC should comprise those artists who are indeed satisfied if they are amply paid for their studio recordings, AND that copyright is neutralised on those recordings such that the audience is then free to share and build upon them, without fear of prosecution or demands for royalty. FAC should comprise those artists in the business of performing and recording music. It should not comprise artists interested in getting into the business of selling copies and broadcast privileges (that business is ending).

FAC’s customer is their audience, their fans. FAC’s customer is not one or more record labels.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

So, members of FAC, come to the light side! Don&#039;t attempt to sit in limbo between two stools. The cartel will reject you for endorsing proposals to legalise non-commercial copying, and the more domestic independent artists and their fans will reject you if you insist on prosecuting them if they earn any money through sharing, remixing, covering, or any other artistic labour.

You can bet the labels won&#039;t pay you a dime of royalties, and their legal budgets outgun yours considerably.

Here we are, your fans, your customers trying to persuade you to return to the original market, the natural one that existed prior to 1710 when copyright was enacted.

Those same 10,000 fans who will pay you to perform at a concert will pay you to perform in a recording studio (or your attic). All you have to do is stop suing your customers (or threatening to) and start letting them pay you for your work (copyleft).

The market for copies has ended. Sell us your art instead!

Release your audience from fear of prosecution. Copyleft your art.

One day people will look back and wonder why the heck artists were so doggone scared to do business with their ancient customers, and kept hanging around the labels that mistreated them and kept 99% of their earnings. It&#039;s a mystery to me already.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As I tried to enlighten Billy at the beginning of October &#8216;09, prior to the formation of a2f2a:</p>
<blockquote><p>I suggest FAC should represent the artists who no longer wish the labels to pretend to represent them. FAC should comprise those artists who are indeed satisfied if they are amply paid for their studio recordings, AND that copyright is neutralised on those recordings such that the audience is then free to share and build upon them, without fear of prosecution or demands for royalty. FAC should comprise those artists in the business of performing and recording music. It should not comprise artists interested in getting into the business of selling copies and broadcast privileges (that business is ending).</p>
<p>FAC’s customer is their audience, their fans. FAC’s customer is not one or more record labels.</p></blockquote>
<p>So, members of FAC, come to the light side! Don&#8217;t attempt to sit in limbo between two stools. The cartel will reject you for endorsing proposals to legalise non-commercial copying, and the more domestic independent artists and their fans will reject you if you insist on prosecuting them if they earn any money through sharing, remixing, covering, or any other artistic labour.</p>
<p>You can bet the labels won&#8217;t pay you a dime of royalties, and their legal budgets outgun yours considerably.</p>
<p>Here we are, your fans, your customers trying to persuade you to return to the original market, the natural one that existed prior to 1710 when copyright was enacted.</p>
<p>Those same 10,000 fans who will pay you to perform at a concert will pay you to perform in a recording studio (or your attic). All you have to do is stop suing your customers (or threatening to) and start letting them pay you for your work (copyleft).</p>
<p>The market for copies has ended. Sell us your art instead!</p>
<p>Release your audience from fear of prosecution. Copyleft your art.</p>
<p>One day people will look back and wonder why the heck artists were so doggone scared to do business with their ancient customers, and kept hanging around the labels that mistreated them and kept 99% of their earnings. It&#8217;s a mystery to me already.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>http://a2f2a.com/2009/11/27/musicians-dropped-from-digital-britain-debate/comment-page-1/#comment-1024</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Nov 2009 14:17:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://a2f2a.com/?p=979#comment-1024</guid>
		<description>Is this a surprise?

Clearly, we need to agree to disagree and start working together.

&lt;b&gt;&lt;i&gt;NEW&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/b&gt; ideas are required and we need to gather evidence that they work.

We need to present this information to the powers that be, along with &quot;vote yes, and we&#039;ll never vote for you again.&quot;  Additionally, we need to prepare.  Spread the word to the masses, the sheep watching Fox News, about what 3 strikes REALLY means!  We need them to get off their couches and realize what is happening.

No government will do as they please when the majority of their population screams &quot;NO.&quot;  They know what happens when they do.

We need to motivate the rest of the people, those whom are not artists or part of this awareness community.  We need their support, their anger to write in, and call in, to every damn senator/MP and let them know how detrimental this will be, to their careers and to the rest of the world outside greedy labels.

There&#039;s a hell of a lot more money to be lost by 3 strikes than &quot;saved&quot; by believing bullshit from labels.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is this a surprise?</p>
<p>Clearly, we need to agree to disagree and start working together.</p>
<p><b><i>NEW</i></b> ideas are required and we need to gather evidence that they work.</p>
<p>We need to present this information to the powers that be, along with &#8220;vote yes, and we&#8217;ll never vote for you again.&#8221;  Additionally, we need to prepare.  Spread the word to the masses, the sheep watching Fox News, about what 3 strikes REALLY means!  We need them to get off their couches and realize what is happening.</p>
<p>No government will do as they please when the majority of their population screams &#8220;NO.&#8221;  They know what happens when they do.</p>
<p>We need to motivate the rest of the people, those whom are not artists or part of this awareness community.  We need their support, their anger to write in, and call in, to every damn senator/MP and let them know how detrimental this will be, to their careers and to the rest of the world outside greedy labels.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s a hell of a lot more money to be lost by 3 strikes than &#8220;saved&#8221; by believing bullshit from labels.</p>
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