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	<title>Comments on: The net is NOT a sales vehicle</title>
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	<link>http://a2f2a.com/2009/11/16/the-net-is-not-a-sales-vehicle/</link>
	<description>The net&#039;s first, and only, artists-to-fans-to-artists blog!</description>
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		<title>By: bill</title>
		<link>http://a2f2a.com/2009/11/16/the-net-is-not-a-sales-vehicle/comment-page-3/#comment-1055</link>
		<dc:creator>bill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Nov 2009 19:10:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://a2f2a.com/?p=878#comment-1055</guid>
		<description>@ Indiana 99
An example of an artist selling recordings or art instead of copies is The Motet, who turn the more accepted bp of using performance to sell copies on its head. This seems to work very well for artists that do not have a huge national following. The Motet gives its current album away as a free download at http://www.myspace.com/themotetmusic. They promote audience taping - you pay the ticket price you can take home a copy of the performance. This, and the fact that they present an astonishing performance, has made them a very successful draw.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Indiana 99<br />
An example of an artist selling recordings or art instead of copies is The Motet, who turn the more accepted bp of using performance to sell copies on its head. This seems to work very well for artists that do not have a huge national following. The Motet gives its current album away as a free download at <a href="http://www.myspace.com/themotetmusic" rel="nofollow">http://www.myspace.com/themotetmusic</a>. They promote audience taping &#8211; you pay the ticket price you can take home a copy of the performance. This, and the fact that they present an astonishing performance, has made them a very successful draw.</p>
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		<title>By: Crosbie Fitch</title>
		<link>http://a2f2a.com/2009/11/16/the-net-is-not-a-sales-vehicle/comment-page-2/#comment-1054</link>
		<dc:creator>Crosbie Fitch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Nov 2009 18:40:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://a2f2a.com/?p=878#comment-1054</guid>
		<description>Yes Indiana, as Jon also recognises, Clark has made a very good clarification that should help you understand the difference between selling copies and recordings.

An author used to sell their novel to a publisher. The publisher then sold copies of it to retailers for them to sell to readers. Given that copies now cost nothing, the author is going to need a new buyer of their novel. It&#039;s pointless the author trying to sell copies if the publisher can&#039;t. So I&#039;m suggesting the author should instead try selling their novel directly to those who would like it written, i.e. those who like the author&#039;s work, his readers.

Sellaband at least demonstrates that a musician&#039;s fans have enough confidence to commission a recording, even if Sellaband doesn&#039;t actually provide such a deal.

When you can&#039;t sell copies of your music, all that&#039;s left is to sell your music. Fortunately, the same fans who used to buy copies (rather than make their own) still want your music, so you can still sell them your music.

Indeed, given your fans can still make copies for nothing anyway, you might as well embrace this and restore their liberty to make copies (suspended in the 18th century).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes Indiana, as Jon also recognises, Clark has made a very good clarification that should help you understand the difference between selling copies and recordings.</p>
<p>An author used to sell their novel to a publisher. The publisher then sold copies of it to retailers for them to sell to readers. Given that copies now cost nothing, the author is going to need a new buyer of their novel. It&#8217;s pointless the author trying to sell copies if the publisher can&#8217;t. So I&#8217;m suggesting the author should instead try selling their novel directly to those who would like it written, i.e. those who like the author&#8217;s work, his readers.</p>
<p>Sellaband at least demonstrates that a musician&#8217;s fans have enough confidence to commission a recording, even if Sellaband doesn&#8217;t actually provide such a deal.</p>
<p>When you can&#8217;t sell copies of your music, all that&#8217;s left is to sell your music. Fortunately, the same fans who used to buy copies (rather than make their own) still want your music, so you can still sell them your music.</p>
<p>Indeed, given your fans can still make copies for nothing anyway, you might as well embrace this and restore their liberty to make copies (suspended in the 18th century).</p>
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		<title>By: Jon Newton</title>
		<link>http://a2f2a.com/2009/11/16/the-net-is-not-a-sales-vehicle/comment-page-2/#comment-1053</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon Newton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Nov 2009 17:28:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://a2f2a.com/?p=878#comment-1053</guid>
		<description>@ Clark: Really well put.

&quot;it might also be necessary as the new technology continues to diminish the price value of the copy.&quot;

No &#039;might&#039; about it.

Cheers!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Clark: Really well put.</p>
<p>&#8220;it might also be necessary as the new technology continues to diminish the price value of the copy.&#8221;</p>
<p>No &#8216;might&#8217; about it.</p>
<p>Cheers!</p>
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		<title>By: Clark Sorley</title>
		<link>http://a2f2a.com/2009/11/16/the-net-is-not-a-sales-vehicle/comment-page-2/#comment-1052</link>
		<dc:creator>Clark Sorley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Nov 2009 16:42:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://a2f2a.com/?p=878#comment-1052</guid>
		<description>Indiana,

Crosbie is making a distinction between a recording and a copy of a recording. 

The pure recording itself is a work of art embodying a set of creative inputs, the ones that are familiar enough to us such as composition, arrangement, performance, production, engineering, programming, editing, and mastering. 

The copy is a copy of the art. The art is the work itself and the processes involved in creating it.

Historically the record business grew up around selling distinct copies of the art. That way of doing business is no longer viable. 

The idea that artists might find ways of funding the work in its purest form and forgetting about the copies is not only a good idea and one worth looking at, it might also be necessary as the new technology continues to diminish the price value of the copy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Indiana,</p>
<p>Crosbie is making a distinction between a recording and a copy of a recording. </p>
<p>The pure recording itself is a work of art embodying a set of creative inputs, the ones that are familiar enough to us such as composition, arrangement, performance, production, engineering, programming, editing, and mastering. </p>
<p>The copy is a copy of the art. The art is the work itself and the processes involved in creating it.</p>
<p>Historically the record business grew up around selling distinct copies of the art. That way of doing business is no longer viable. </p>
<p>The idea that artists might find ways of funding the work in its purest form and forgetting about the copies is not only a good idea and one worth looking at, it might also be necessary as the new technology continues to diminish the price value of the copy.</p>
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		<title>By: Crosbie Fitch</title>
		<link>http://a2f2a.com/2009/11/16/the-net-is-not-a-sales-vehicle/comment-page-2/#comment-1051</link>
		<dc:creator>Crosbie Fitch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Nov 2009 15:49:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://a2f2a.com/?p=878#comment-1051</guid>
		<description>Indiana, I know of not a single CD Baby artist selling their recordings to their fans. As far as I&#039;m aware they&#039;re all still selling copies. If you know of a single one selling recordings direct to their fans please let me know.

I thought you might bring up Sellaband. However, this is artists appealing to their fans to advance funds to pay a record label for a recording session. The fans don&#039;t actually purchase the recording, so much as make an advance purchase of a CD (and a small share of any future CD sales). So, &#039;close, but no cigar&#039;.

See &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.digitalproductions.co.uk/index.php?id=39&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;SellaBand - A New Middleman&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Indiana, I know of not a single CD Baby artist selling their recordings to their fans. As far as I&#8217;m aware they&#8217;re all still selling copies. If you know of a single one selling recordings direct to their fans please let me know.</p>
<p>I thought you might bring up Sellaband. However, this is artists appealing to their fans to advance funds to pay a record label for a recording session. The fans don&#8217;t actually purchase the recording, so much as make an advance purchase of a CD (and a small share of any future CD sales). So, &#8216;close, but no cigar&#8217;.</p>
<p>See <a href="http://www.digitalproductions.co.uk/index.php?id=39" rel="nofollow">SellaBand &#8211; A New Middleman</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Indiana Gregg</title>
		<link>http://a2f2a.com/2009/11/16/the-net-is-not-a-sales-vehicle/comment-page-2/#comment-1050</link>
		<dc:creator>Indiana Gregg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Nov 2009 14:23:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://a2f2a.com/?p=878#comment-1050</guid>
		<description>@crosbie  Here are 3,182 artists that are selling their &#039;recordings&#039; to their fans: http://www.sellaband.com/  as another example. We have a similar integration that we are working on at kerchoonz which operates slightly differently. 

Most of the artists in the world are not on labels.  They are independent and sell directly to their fans (or they may have their own &#039;label&#039; which is just them or their band, etc.) There are also many shop services that allow artists to keep 100% of their earnings from their downloads.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@crosbie  Here are 3,182 artists that are selling their &#8216;recordings&#8217; to their fans: <a href="http://www.sellaband.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.sellaband.com/</a>  as another example. We have a similar integration that we are working on at kerchoonz which operates slightly differently. </p>
<p>Most of the artists in the world are not on labels.  They are independent and sell directly to their fans (or they may have their own &#8216;label&#8217; which is just them or their band, etc.) There are also many shop services that allow artists to keep 100% of their earnings from their downloads.</p>
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		<title>By: Indiana Gregg</title>
		<link>http://a2f2a.com/2009/11/16/the-net-is-not-a-sales-vehicle/comment-page-2/#comment-1049</link>
		<dc:creator>Indiana Gregg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Nov 2009 14:01:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://a2f2a.com/?p=878#comment-1049</guid>
		<description>@Crosbie  have a look at CD baby, there are thousands of independent artists who sell their music directly to their fans everyday.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Crosbie  have a look at CD baby, there are thousands of independent artists who sell their music directly to their fans everyday.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>http://a2f2a.com/2009/11/16/the-net-is-not-a-sales-vehicle/comment-page-2/#comment-1023</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Nov 2009 14:00:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://a2f2a.com/?p=878#comment-1023</guid>
		<description>@Indiann #94:
What I would tell him is what I wrapped in quotes.

The other stuff is supporting arguments of what I would say.  Given he&#039;s a politician, he won&#039;t listen to anything longer than 30 seconds, hence the quotes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Indiann #94:<br />
What I would tell him is what I wrapped in quotes.</p>
<p>The other stuff is supporting arguments of what I would say.  Given he&#8217;s a politician, he won&#8217;t listen to anything longer than 30 seconds, hence the quotes.</p>
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		<title>By: Crosbie Fitch</title>
		<link>http://a2f2a.com/2009/11/16/the-net-is-not-a-sales-vehicle/comment-page-2/#comment-1022</link>
		<dc:creator>Crosbie Fitch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Nov 2009 12:37:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://a2f2a.com/?p=878#comment-1022</guid>
		<description>Indiana, ok so you don&#039;t sell streams, you sell the streams&#039; listeners&#039; eyeballs to advertisers. Fine. My point was no-one&#039;s complaining about what you&#039;re selling.

The complaint is against the privileged persecuting the public.

As to artists selling their recordings directly to their fans I&#039;d be impressed if you can list me five let alone five thousand. But, to make it easy for you, how about you list me one?

I found one a few days ago quite easily, but then I knew where to look.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Indiana, ok so you don&#8217;t sell streams, you sell the streams&#8217; listeners&#8217; eyeballs to advertisers. Fine. My point was no-one&#8217;s complaining about what you&#8217;re selling.</p>
<p>The complaint is against the privileged persecuting the public.</p>
<p>As to artists selling their recordings directly to their fans I&#8217;d be impressed if you can list me five let alone five thousand. But, to make it easy for you, how about you list me one?</p>
<p>I found one a few days ago quite easily, but then I knew where to look.</p>
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		<title>By: Indiana Gregg</title>
		<link>http://a2f2a.com/2009/11/16/the-net-is-not-a-sales-vehicle/comment-page-2/#comment-1020</link>
		<dc:creator>Indiana Gregg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Nov 2009 01:20:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://a2f2a.com/?p=878#comment-1020</guid>
		<description>@Crosbie  We don&#039;t sell &#039;streams&#039; on Kerchoonz... They are &#039;free&#039;, people just listen (but, when they listen, we pay the artists from the advertising that&#039;s generated on that page.) The artists sell their physical merchandise and they can also opt to either sell their mp3&#039;s at whatever price (or give them away for &#039;free&#039; and take a cut of the advertising displayed during the download). 

Traditionally, labels fronted the cost of a studio recording if they&#039;ve done a deal with the artist. If not, other investors would front that cost. There are actually quite a few artists who sell direct to their fans without a &#039;label&#039;. A lot of artists simply set up their own label, apply for bar codes for their products and ISRCs. There are thousands upon thousands of independent artists who do that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Crosbie  We don&#8217;t sell &#8217;streams&#8217; on Kerchoonz&#8230; They are &#8216;free&#8217;, people just listen (but, when they listen, we pay the artists from the advertising that&#8217;s generated on that page.) The artists sell their physical merchandise and they can also opt to either sell their mp3&#8217;s at whatever price (or give them away for &#8216;free&#8217; and take a cut of the advertising displayed during the download). </p>
<p>Traditionally, labels fronted the cost of a studio recording if they&#8217;ve done a deal with the artist. If not, other investors would front that cost. There are actually quite a few artists who sell direct to their fans without a &#8216;label&#8217;. A lot of artists simply set up their own label, apply for bar codes for their products and ISRCs. There are thousands upon thousands of independent artists who do that.</p>
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