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	<title>Comments on: &#8220;You lost me at &#8216;ISP levy&#8217; &#8220;</title>
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	<description>The net&#039;s first, and only, artists-to-fans-to-artists blog!</description>
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		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>http://a2f2a.com/2009/11/12/you-lost-me-at-isp-levy/comment-page-2/#comment-999</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 13:58:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://a2f2a.com/?p=854#comment-999</guid>
		<description>@Chris:
If those go through, there will be class action lawsuits against governments for invasion of privacy, abuse of rights and powers by those with the information, and of course a lot of rebellion. The rebellion will be workarounds to the passports.  Look at how hard companies like Microsoft try to protect their products.  The harder they try the more eager the reverse engineers are to crack them.

Making it illegal won&#039;t stop people from cracking it.  Which shows that the People, do not agree with it.

If the passports come to pass, guaranteed there will be widespread abuse and innocent people punished.  Guaranteed private information will be revealed to third parties for whatever reason.  Guaranteed those deemed a security threat will be required to have these passports (ie: any Middle Eastern country).  And guaranteed there will be people cracking them.

It&#039;s a waste of time and money!

&quot;He who sacrifices liberty for security shall have, and deserves, neither.&quot; Benjamen Franklin.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Chris:<br />
If those go through, there will be class action lawsuits against governments for invasion of privacy, abuse of rights and powers by those with the information, and of course a lot of rebellion. The rebellion will be workarounds to the passports.  Look at how hard companies like Microsoft try to protect their products.  The harder they try the more eager the reverse engineers are to crack them.</p>
<p>Making it illegal won&#8217;t stop people from cracking it.  Which shows that the People, do not agree with it.</p>
<p>If the passports come to pass, guaranteed there will be widespread abuse and innocent people punished.  Guaranteed private information will be revealed to third parties for whatever reason.  Guaranteed those deemed a security threat will be required to have these passports (ie: any Middle Eastern country).  And guaranteed there will be people cracking them.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s a waste of time and money!</p>
<p>&#8220;He who sacrifices liberty for security shall have, and deserves, neither.&#8221; Benjamen Franklin.</p>
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		<title>By: Christopher Parsons</title>
		<link>http://a2f2a.com/2009/11/12/you-lost-me-at-isp-levy/comment-page-2/#comment-990</link>
		<dc:creator>Christopher Parsons</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 01:01:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://a2f2a.com/?p=854#comment-990</guid>
		<description>Just a very short note, that relates to the issue of &#039;net passports.

They are, in all likelihood, coming. The claim that we don&#039;t hear about them is simply a result of weak reporting skills by most of the world&#039;s reporters. A colleague of mine is working on the role of identity cards in Spain, and from the various EU and military contracting companies that are invested in testing these cards and spreading them throughout the EU it is only a matter of time until ID card and &#039;net access are drawn together. The Spanish ID cards are designed to authenticate to a computer, and can hold a truly massive amount of information (everything from drivers license information, mortgage information, magazine subscriptions, etc). From the various contracting companies, the only thing that is holding back the injection of this information into all Spanish ID cards are:

(1) laws, which are gradually being weakened in Spain over time;
(2) cost of ID card readers, and first-generation technology interoperability issues (i.e. works with Windows, and not much else)

Both of these hurdles will be overcome, unless there are significant changes to privacy legislation in the EU. Given that EU regulations are presently being crafted to create an interoperable identity system whereby users of Spanish, Italian, and other EU IDs could be used and traced across jurisdictions, it&#039;s safe to say that this isn&#039;t just a &#039;Spanish&#039; issue. While I&#039;m in no way trying to suggest that ID cards and authenticated identities will penetrate the entire world (the researchers I speak with expect the US and Canada to be long-term holdouts), the Spanish technology is being deployed slowly in Italy, and massively exported to Latin America. It&#039;s still a few years out, but ID cards and &#039;net authentication will likely be a reality for at least some users of the &#039;net in the not-so-distant future.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just a very short note, that relates to the issue of &#8216;net passports.</p>
<p>They are, in all likelihood, coming. The claim that we don&#8217;t hear about them is simply a result of weak reporting skills by most of the world&#8217;s reporters. A colleague of mine is working on the role of identity cards in Spain, and from the various EU and military contracting companies that are invested in testing these cards and spreading them throughout the EU it is only a matter of time until ID card and &#8216;net access are drawn together. The Spanish ID cards are designed to authenticate to a computer, and can hold a truly massive amount of information (everything from drivers license information, mortgage information, magazine subscriptions, etc). From the various contracting companies, the only thing that is holding back the injection of this information into all Spanish ID cards are:</p>
<p>(1) laws, which are gradually being weakened in Spain over time;<br />
(2) cost of ID card readers, and first-generation technology interoperability issues (i.e. works with Windows, and not much else)</p>
<p>Both of these hurdles will be overcome, unless there are significant changes to privacy legislation in the EU. Given that EU regulations are presently being crafted to create an interoperable identity system whereby users of Spanish, Italian, and other EU IDs could be used and traced across jurisdictions, it&#8217;s safe to say that this isn&#8217;t just a &#8216;Spanish&#8217; issue. While I&#8217;m in no way trying to suggest that ID cards and authenticated identities will penetrate the entire world (the researchers I speak with expect the US and Canada to be long-term holdouts), the Spanish technology is being deployed slowly in Italy, and massively exported to Latin America. It&#8217;s still a few years out, but ID cards and &#8216;net authentication will likely be a reality for at least some users of the &#8216;net in the not-so-distant future.</p>
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		<title>By: Dreddsnik</title>
		<link>http://a2f2a.com/2009/11/12/you-lost-me-at-isp-levy/comment-page-2/#comment-888</link>
		<dc:creator>Dreddsnik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 16:17:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://a2f2a.com/?p=854#comment-888</guid>
		<description>Yes, it is.

Yes, they did pay for those copies, I know that.
If the library pays for 10 copies of your CD, and I convince 100 people to check it out from the library rather than purchase it, the boycott still has teeth. As the economy worsens, it will become easier to get people to use the library than the store. More will use the pawn shops, nore will use their CD burners.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, it is.</p>
<p>Yes, they did pay for those copies, I know that.<br />
If the library pays for 10 copies of your CD, and I convince 100 people to check it out from the library rather than purchase it, the boycott still has teeth. As the economy worsens, it will become easier to get people to use the library than the store. More will use the pawn shops, nore will use their CD burners.</p>
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		<title>By: Monkey D. Luffy</title>
		<link>http://a2f2a.com/2009/11/12/you-lost-me-at-isp-levy/comment-page-2/#comment-886</link>
		<dc:creator>Monkey D. Luffy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 15:17:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://a2f2a.com/?p=854#comment-886</guid>
		<description>@Indiana Gregg

They have any other kind?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Indiana Gregg</p>
<p>They have any other kind?</p>
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		<title>By: Indiana Gregg</title>
		<link>http://a2f2a.com/2009/11/12/you-lost-me-at-isp-levy/comment-page-2/#comment-880</link>
		<dc:creator>Indiana Gregg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 10:35:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://a2f2a.com/?p=854#comment-880</guid>
		<description>@ Dreddsnik 

I&#039;m presuming the library you go to is &#039;free&#039; and it&#039;s either a public or University library?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Dreddsnik </p>
<p>I&#8217;m presuming the library you go to is &#8216;free&#8217; and it&#8217;s either a public or University library?</p>
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		<title>By: Monkey D. Luffy</title>
		<link>http://a2f2a.com/2009/11/12/you-lost-me-at-isp-levy/comment-page-2/#comment-872</link>
		<dc:creator>Monkey D. Luffy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Nov 2009 19:55:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://a2f2a.com/?p=854#comment-872</guid>
		<description>@Indianna and Dredd

&lt;blockquote&gt;Thing is, we can ask all we want, but no one can control the ‘Release Groups’. I am NOT saying it all their fault but if the ‘groups’ decided to stop pushing label material, it would help.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Mass marketing and promo work for p2p too, as does supply and demand.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Indianna and Dredd</p>
<blockquote><p>Thing is, we can ask all we want, but no one can control the ‘Release Groups’. I am NOT saying it all their fault but if the ‘groups’ decided to stop pushing label material, it would help.
</p></blockquote>
<p>Mass marketing and promo work for p2p too, as does supply and demand.</p>
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		<title>By: Dreddsnik</title>
		<link>http://a2f2a.com/2009/11/12/you-lost-me-at-isp-levy/comment-page-2/#comment-870</link>
		<dc:creator>Dreddsnik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Nov 2009 16:04:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://a2f2a.com/?p=854#comment-870</guid>
		<description>@Jon

 As soon as the first judge officially decided to call out the RIAA lawyers on continuing to misjoinder the the cases, after they had long been ordered to stop doing it, and other judges started wanting more evidence, the RIAA seemed to stop. Being unable to misjoinder cases makes it much more expensive for the RIAA to proceed, requiring the RIAA lawyers to provide evidence pretty much ends their cases. The 3 strikes business is a means to do an &#039;end-around&#039; the Courts. 

 @Indiana

 &quot; So, if p2p is such a great promotional vehicle and if the community is hoping to boycott the RIAA then, why are p2p users promoting the RIAA’s music? For example, (in Dresddnik’s case), he’s saying that p2p hopes to boycott the RIAA’s music (presumably by not buying it), so, wouldn’t it send a bigger message to the RIAA to simply remove all RIAA funded music from all p2p networks? &quot;

 Not hoping to, ARE. 
 Jon can vouch for this ( I hope ), one of the things I&#039;ve said repeatedly at P2P.net is Don&#039;t download, don&#039;t buy, but if you must have it, get it second hand. I for one have lived by that for the past 10 years. I&#039;ve gotten a lot of my friends to as well. One might ask how someone would get the NEW sutff that way .. well I have some bad new for some artists, a great majority of the &#039;new&#039; stuff hits the second hand shelves and pawn shops after a bout a week of initial release .. tops. It&#039;s really hard to find a LOT of classic rock artists, but the second hand shelves are always loaded with the latest and greatest. You can come up with your own theory as to why that happens. ;)

 Thing is, we can ask all we want, but no one can control the &#039;Release Groups&#039;. I am NOT saying it all their fault but if the &#039;groups&#039; decided to stop pushing label material, it would help. I guess indirectly it does. Though we DO NOT ENDORSE THIS BEHAVIOR some DO want their cake and eat it. They want to boycott, yet still want some label crap. It is inevitable that there will be people like that. Bottom line .. We&#039;re not the boss of anyone and can only ask people to boycott.

 And I haven&#039;t bought in 9 or 10 years, outside of the previous ruleset. I either buy second hand, or go to the library. Those are both completely legal, so far, and no label gets any of MY money. Sales WILL take a much bigger hit as more people head to second hand shops, not only because of a boycott, but simply because of a poor economy. When that happens, do you think the labels will acknowledge it, or will they simply blame sharers.
 No, there is no mixed message in my stance and my actions.

&lt;i&gt;The preceding statements are an opinion, not necessarily shared by all, relayed for informational purposes and are not to be taken as an order, or a definitive course of action.&lt;/i&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Jon</p>
<p> As soon as the first judge officially decided to call out the RIAA lawyers on continuing to misjoinder the the cases, after they had long been ordered to stop doing it, and other judges started wanting more evidence, the RIAA seemed to stop. Being unable to misjoinder cases makes it much more expensive for the RIAA to proceed, requiring the RIAA lawyers to provide evidence pretty much ends their cases. The 3 strikes business is a means to do an &#8216;end-around&#8217; the Courts. </p>
<p> @Indiana</p>
<p> &#8221; So, if p2p is such a great promotional vehicle and if the community is hoping to boycott the RIAA then, why are p2p users promoting the RIAA’s music? For example, (in Dresddnik’s case), he’s saying that p2p hopes to boycott the RIAA’s music (presumably by not buying it), so, wouldn’t it send a bigger message to the RIAA to simply remove all RIAA funded music from all p2p networks? &#8221;</p>
<p> Not hoping to, ARE.<br />
 Jon can vouch for this ( I hope ), one of the things I&#8217;ve said repeatedly at P2P.net is Don&#8217;t download, don&#8217;t buy, but if you must have it, get it second hand. I for one have lived by that for the past 10 years. I&#8217;ve gotten a lot of my friends to as well. One might ask how someone would get the NEW sutff that way .. well I have some bad new for some artists, a great majority of the &#8216;new&#8217; stuff hits the second hand shelves and pawn shops after a bout a week of initial release .. tops. It&#8217;s really hard to find a LOT of classic rock artists, but the second hand shelves are always loaded with the latest and greatest. You can come up with your own theory as to why that happens. <img src='http://a2f2a.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p> Thing is, we can ask all we want, but no one can control the &#8216;Release Groups&#8217;. I am NOT saying it all their fault but if the &#8216;groups&#8217; decided to stop pushing label material, it would help. I guess indirectly it does. Though we DO NOT ENDORSE THIS BEHAVIOR some DO want their cake and eat it. They want to boycott, yet still want some label crap. It is inevitable that there will be people like that. Bottom line .. We&#8217;re not the boss of anyone and can only ask people to boycott.</p>
<p> And I haven&#8217;t bought in 9 or 10 years, outside of the previous ruleset. I either buy second hand, or go to the library. Those are both completely legal, so far, and no label gets any of MY money. Sales WILL take a much bigger hit as more people head to second hand shops, not only because of a boycott, but simply because of a poor economy. When that happens, do you think the labels will acknowledge it, or will they simply blame sharers.<br />
 No, there is no mixed message in my stance and my actions.</p>
<p><i>The preceding statements are an opinion, not necessarily shared by all, relayed for informational purposes and are not to be taken as an order, or a definitive course of action.</i></p>
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		<title>By: Jon Newton</title>
		<link>http://a2f2a.com/2009/11/12/you-lost-me-at-isp-levy/comment-page-2/#comment-869</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon Newton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Nov 2009 15:19:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://a2f2a.com/?p=854#comment-869</guid>
		<description>@ Monkey D. Luffy

I know what you mean, and I&#039;ll soon be doing a p2pnet follow-up on one of the most important of the ongoing lawsuits. But for now, I think they&#039;re pretty much on hold - or at least, they&#039;ve stopped suing everyone and his brother. And sister. And aunt and uncle. And ...

Cheers!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Monkey D. Luffy</p>
<p>I know what you mean, and I&#8217;ll soon be doing a p2pnet follow-up on one of the most important of the ongoing lawsuits. But for now, I think they&#8217;re pretty much on hold &#8211; or at least, they&#8217;ve stopped suing everyone and his brother. And sister. And aunt and uncle. And &#8230;</p>
<p>Cheers!</p>
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		<title>By: Monkey D. Luffy</title>
		<link>http://a2f2a.com/2009/11/12/you-lost-me-at-isp-levy/comment-page-2/#comment-867</link>
		<dc:creator>Monkey D. Luffy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Nov 2009 14:39:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://a2f2a.com/?p=854#comment-867</guid>
		<description>@Jon

 Thanks for bringing up the three strikes issue, I had forgotten to add that to the list. I do stand by my statement on file sharer lawsuits, even if most or all of them are ongoing and not new they need to stop.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Jon</p>
<p> Thanks for bringing up the three strikes issue, I had forgotten to add that to the list. I do stand by my statement on file sharer lawsuits, even if most or all of them are ongoing and not new they need to stop.</p>
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		<title>By: Crosbie Fitch</title>
		<link>http://a2f2a.com/2009/11/12/you-lost-me-at-isp-levy/comment-page-2/#comment-865</link>
		<dc:creator>Crosbie Fitch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Nov 2009 14:19:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://a2f2a.com/?p=854#comment-865</guid>
		<description>Indiana, no-one is in control of anyone else, and that is only perceived as a problem by publishing corporations (and their enthralled artists). So the last thing the proponents of cultural liberty can do is tell file-sharers to share only copyleft works. We can recommend that, but we aren&#039;t into wasting our time commanding the tide.

The best thing to do is to figure out what you ARE in control of and proceed on that basis.

1) Artists are in control of producing and publishing their art.
2) Fans are in control of their money and which artists they would incentivise.

All that&#039;s needed is a means of exchange that doesn&#039;t involve publishers or collection societies who&#039;ll take the lion&#039;s share.

Everything else is immaterial. You can plead with the moon to force people to respect your monopolies. You can appeal to the king to force people who add value to copies of your art to give you a royalty. You can beg the government to tax the people to provide you with a subsistence income (with bonuses based on popularity).

You have to decide: do you seek the power to collect a levy, or control what people do with your art, or do you seek to sell your art to your fans?

There are strangely very few people into discussing the latter.

Consider a couple of typical perspectives:

a) My publisher must have the power to enforce his 18th century privilege that prevents you making your own copies for nothing, in order that he can sell you copies instead.
b) All those who would incentivise me to produce a new single, please visit my Kickstarter page X.

Those artists with a proud history, choose &#039;a&#039;.
Those artists with a bright future, choose &#039;b&#039;. 

I expect this philosophical polarisation between artists will become increasingly apparent, and neatly divide between signed/traditionalists and indie/youngsters.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Indiana, no-one is in control of anyone else, and that is only perceived as a problem by publishing corporations (and their enthralled artists). So the last thing the proponents of cultural liberty can do is tell file-sharers to share only copyleft works. We can recommend that, but we aren&#8217;t into wasting our time commanding the tide.</p>
<p>The best thing to do is to figure out what you ARE in control of and proceed on that basis.</p>
<p>1) Artists are in control of producing and publishing their art.<br />
2) Fans are in control of their money and which artists they would incentivise.</p>
<p>All that&#8217;s needed is a means of exchange that doesn&#8217;t involve publishers or collection societies who&#8217;ll take the lion&#8217;s share.</p>
<p>Everything else is immaterial. You can plead with the moon to force people to respect your monopolies. You can appeal to the king to force people who add value to copies of your art to give you a royalty. You can beg the government to tax the people to provide you with a subsistence income (with bonuses based on popularity).</p>
<p>You have to decide: do you seek the power to collect a levy, or control what people do with your art, or do you seek to sell your art to your fans?</p>
<p>There are strangely very few people into discussing the latter.</p>
<p>Consider a couple of typical perspectives:</p>
<p>a) My publisher must have the power to enforce his 18th century privilege that prevents you making your own copies for nothing, in order that he can sell you copies instead.<br />
b) All those who would incentivise me to produce a new single, please visit my Kickstarter page X.</p>
<p>Those artists with a proud history, choose &#8216;a&#8217;.<br />
Those artists with a bright future, choose &#8216;b&#8217;. </p>
<p>I expect this philosophical polarisation between artists will become increasingly apparent, and neatly divide between signed/traditionalists and indie/youngsters.</p>
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